My interest in tactical warfare has been rekindled by playing the WRG 1925-50 (neu) test games. Tactical games aren't really suitable for our remote sessions, well not the way I like to play them, but are fine for solo games and maybe f2f.
Sitting on my shelf for ages has been Norm Smiths excellent 'Tigers at Minsk'. Unlike WRG they are played on a grid (yay!), don't take up much space (double yay!) and are quick (triple yay!). I've read through the rules a few times and followed Norms various Batreps, and thought it was finally time to give them a go. It will make a change from "Dominion of..." anyway.
First up is a simple tank battle, set near Tamarovka in 1943. Regular readers will recall we recently fought a number of historical brigade/division sized engagements in the region, which was heavily fought over during Operation Rumyatsev.
The terrain is pretty simple, a low ridge, three woods (with two trees on) and two areas of 'scrub' which I did with single trees. Each hex is supposed to be around 125m, so this is quite a small battlefield. Each turn is 2D6 minutes, so the game has a time limit, but the actual number of turn is variable.
I'm using my 'desert transition' boards (brown with green grass clumps) for Ukraine in summer as this is pretty much how our lawn looks after months without significant rain.
The protagonists. The Russians have five T34/76d and the Germans a single Panther from 52nd Panzer Bn (attached to 6th Panzer Div). Although these are supposed to be individual vehicles, I can't help treating them as sections of 2-3, like Charles Grant.
The Russians need to KO the Panther before time runs out. The rub is that the 76mm guns of the T34s can't penetrate the Panther frontally, so they need to get a flank shot. If they can get adjacent, fire at such short range is treated as a flank shot (rather like the original Squad Leader armour rules).
As the battlefield is so small, there aren't any other range restrictions, just that infantry fire over four hexes is penalised. There are however facing penalties for AT fire (if you need to pivot and shoot etc), some of which are quite severe.
Game number 1. The obvious way to protect your flanks is sit in a corner, just like AHGCs 'Tobruk', so the Panther parks up in one corner. The Russians set up behind the scrub or in the woods. Woods are normally difficult terrain for vehicles to move into, but you can set up in the them. Both woods and scrub provide cover (well, concealment), woods block LOS but scrub only blocks LOS randomly as it is variable height.
The Russians need to close the range, but as this is a tactical game, units generally only move one hex in LOS of the enemy. Units can only activate if they are in command, and each side designates one hex plus two adjacent ones as being in command, you dice for the rest. Keeping the Russians bunched up like this keeps them all in command. The scenario stacking limit is 2 units per hex, normally it is three.
Units can conduct opportunity fire, which precludes regular fire in the future turns. The Panther pops off at the advancing T34s, at 500m it is almost an automatic damaging hit (anything but a 0 on a D10), and then the Germans get lucky and score a KO and burn. There aren't separate to hit/to kill rolls but a single 'effective AT fire' roll which combines AT vs armour values, cover, firing aspect etc. If you score an 'effective hit' there is a simple damage table with results from KO and burn to stunned.
The T34s close in. The Panther KOs another one (with turned turret) and stuns a third (blue counter). I must have skipped a couple of turns to get to here.
The Panther opp fires (smoke puff on the barrel) the T34 at the top and it bursts into flames. Burning AFVs produce smoke which blocks LOS, but the smoke can disappear. Just two T34s left now.
Having lost 3 units (half their force) the Russian morale fails, but the two remaining tanks pass their morale tests.
They bravely advance next to the Panther, which only manages to stun one of them. To recover from a stun, units have to conduct a rally action in their own turn.
The remaining T34 fires at point blank range, scores a damaging hit and the Panther is....stunned! Time runs out and the Germans win. I think that was five turns, maybe six? If you roll doubles on the time clock dice you get a random event, but no doubles were rolled.
OK, that was a good trial run. The sequence of fire/opp fire/opp fire recovery takes a bit of getting used to but I'm getting my head around it.
Right time to try again. This time the Germans set up on their baseline, I had a vague idea there might be less cover for the Russians on this approach. As before the Russians managed to hide behind some scrub and stay bunched to retain C2.
The T34s roll forward, the Panther pops the end one in the open with opp fire, but just scores a stun. The Russians manage to recover from the stun in their own end turn phase. It is easier to rally in cover, but in the open you need a 1 or 2.
The Russians roll forward another hex and the Panther hits the end T34 again. Another stun!
The Russian horde rolls forwards. The stunned T34 fails to recover this time and the Panther (finally) manages to knock one of the others out, but three of them firing at point blank range demolish the Panther. A Russian win.
Next up Game 3. Norm suggests mixing in a couple of more powerful tanks at this point so you aren't just playing the 'rush the Panther' game.
Two of the T34s are swapped for T34/85s. These do actually have a chance against the Panthers frontally, albeit not a great one.
The Panther goes back in the corner. The Russians set up behind cover. The plan is to get the T34/85s into a firing position to act as a base of fire while the T34/76s close in. As range is (largely) irrelevant, I just need LOS with the 85s.
The Russians roll forwards in a clump. The T34/85s set up the scrub. The Germans hit one of the T34/76s but just stun it. Although a bit dispersed, all the Russians are still in command.
The 85s take the Panther under fire and manage to stun it while the 76s close in. The already stunned tank fails to recover. Although fire through friendly units isn't allowed for small arms and MG fire, it is for AT fire, so the 85s can fire through the tank in front of them.
Being stunned rather dooms the Panther as it can't do anything as the Russians close in. Being in the corner already means it can't even back up.
The Panther recovers just in time for it to be demolished by a T34 at point blank range. Another Russian win. I think I'm getting the hang of this now, although obviously with such a small engagement the outcome is very dice dependant.
That was a good introduction, although hilariously despite playing three games I didn't get a single random event. I suppose that is the definition of 'random'.
I like many aspects of these, particularly command and morale as they work well for a solo game. I'm not 100% convinced by the AT system as it rolls both weapon accuracy and penetration into a single number. That is fine as a technique and many games use it, but it makes some of the more powerful weapons automatic hits on weaker targets whereas irl actually acquiring a target is often the hardest bit, and having the most powerful gun in the world (like a 128mm in a Jagdtiger) doesn't actually make it easier to acquire a target. Equally, if you want to actually model eg a Tiger being immune to a 37mm gun you have to have improbably high defence vs attack values which skew the relationships with other types of target. Or just accept that you have a very impressionist system which is going to produce some odd results from time to time.
I really don't want to come across as being overly critical, it worked in the context of this game and Ishall reserve judgement for now. If it becomes an issue it would be easy enough to plug in another AT fire system which has separate to hit and to kill rolls should it be required. The lack of range dependency is as a bit odd though. It is noticeable in WRG how critical range bands are, even at such sort ranges as 250 and 500m (or two and four hexes in these rules).
One change I am minded to do is swap all the numbers around so that high numbers are always good though. I find it really confusing when some required scores are low and some are high, just how my brain works.
Righto, next time training scenario 2, infantry combat.
Excellent stuff. I too have TaM sitting on the shelf staring at me. I always loved the idea of the game clock, and it works well here. Interesting points re. target acquistion (hit and kill rolls) and range bands from WRG. I somehow knew that your recent WRG experience would come back to haunt you - in a good way of course.
ReplyDeleteThere is another ww2 set which uses range bands and is VERY WRG - from Anschluss Publishing, with some great scenario books.
I was recently thinking about the old WRG acquisition system in their old modern rules,,,much as I hate to admit it, they had some nice systems, despite the dense prose, and the logic :)
Thank you. I don't really want to fight WRG by proxy, and TaM are a different take on tactical combat more in line with what I like to do at this level (Crossfire/Squad Leader).
DeleteHi Martin, thanks for giving these a run out and taking the time to do a write up.
ReplyDeleteIt’s been a while since I have used these, so going from memory, range bands are not there because I felt the ranges are too short for that on the typical battlefield size that I was using, but agree such things do add more dynamism to play.
A slight counter to the combine to hit and gun /armour relationships is that once a hit is scored the Penetration Table is generic, being the same for all gun calibres, which dampens down the effects of the combined calculation and also works hand in hand with that combo.
But of course that was just my thinking at the time and the basics are robust enough to bring house rules in quite easily.
I seem to remember going through two previous edits of gun / armour rules, with the third effort moving to a D10.
I am just building some office blocks (Pendraken) with a view to doing a city fight, I thought I might run that with Tam, Rapid Fire Reloaded and John Salt’s WRG for some comparisons.
Darren - These days when I dip into old rules, I end up with some questions, but back in the day as a teenager, I didn’t and just got one with it ….. am I alone?
Hi Norm - I know, I was the same. These days, I find myself dipping into a set for a definitive period, and thinking 'these have great mechanisms for another period'.
DeleteNow, case in point, and in line with the fact you are working on urban combat, mechanics; for some inexplicable reason, I always thought of TaM being an excellent system for 'Berlin '85' with British defending against Soviets in a fictional encounter...perhaps the game clock or something - made me always consider this, but an old idea, which I must sort out - using potentially squares as city blocks rather than hexes...
Thanks Norm. I appreciate the 'damage' table, I've tried to keep the stun results in with my fiddling, as I always rather liked that as a result in Squad Leader/Cross of Iron too. I also get the short ranges not needing range bands, although I was just a bit taken aback in my recent WRG games how granular the short range bands are for some weapons - obvs not at 88 hitting a halftrack! I know what is like going through half a dozen design iterations to get to a result.
DeleteIt was a great game, very enjoyable and thought provoking. There are several more Batreps to come....
Interesting game, although the corner position for the defender seems a bit cheatsy. I have somewhat mixed feelings on range bands - clearly range IS important, and units were ordered to engage at X yards/meters, etc (although unless prepared defense, that would be estimated?most likely). With all the game factors in the open, it’s easy to fall into “at this precise range my opponent is -1 to hit, but I can still penetrate, so I’ll maneuver to keep the range!” I’m not clear ground units think in those terms, although navies seem to.
Deleteinterestingly, I play a lot of tactical hex and counter games where the hex is around 50 metres (i.e. like Squad leader) and on these boards, firefights often happen around 7 hexes, so just 350 metres and yet these games have the likes of JagdPanthers in (because we all want them :-) ), which were meant to stand off at somewhere around 2000 metres away, so you can end up in something of a cartoon world with 50 metre games.
ReplyDeleteOne game system that I had has hexes at 100 metres per hex and because of the terrain density, typical engagements are at the 800 - 1300 metre range, giving a very different feel of game, where range bands and weapon performance Vs armour does have a real world impact.
Going back to my Penetration Table, I think one might need to imagine that a Stun from a high calibre / velocity weapon is probably a glancing blow rather than a direct hit, while a Stun from a lower velocity gun could very well be a direct hit, but a straight failure to penetrate.
It’s odd but with John Salt’s rules it is page 11 - Armour Classes that I remember so vividly and fondly from the 1975 set, there is very much a nostalgic pang happening! I must get them to the table.
I’m not so keen on old school spotting rules, but very much like the way that ‘O’ Group handles that (rolling an extra dice for spotting at the moment of combat).
Don’t worry about voicing any concerns about TaM, I am not in the slightest precious about them and if I were writing them today, they may well look different :-)
I have a lot of nostalgia for the original WRG set too, which was partly why I put the time in with the re work. In fact so nostalgic that I've been out and tracked down another copy of the original set. At the time they were pretty ground breaking.
DeleteSquad Leader pretty much set the standard with 40m hexes but was very infantry focused. Tobruk used 75m which was better for armoured combat. I was very taken with your 100 to 125m hexes though as it works for both infantry and armour (where the vast majority of successful engagements were well under 1000m).
Funny how opposite Squad Leader and Tobruk are, one being all “design for effect” and the other trying to be more a physics simulation. I really wanted to like Tobruk, but couldn’t play beyond the first scenario. Too many dice. I don’t recall if the designer claimed to account for observing fall of shot in his ROF calculations or just went with testing ground numbers, but I found the whole thing doubtful. Then the exclusion of terrain because it “dominated play” just killed the concept for me. “Gunnery Exercise” isn’t really a game I’m interested in playing, although I’ll borrow data and OOBs if need be.
DeleteWhat was the old Yaquinto Panzer has been re-imagined by GMT and those maps at 100 metres per hex are quite schematic, I suppose similar in style to the old Panzer Blitz.
ReplyDeleteSome have complained at the lack of beauty, but I rather think the intention is to draw the gamers eye to the terrain that actually matters, in the same way as a commander would do.
You are forced to look at that woods over there and that hill over there etc and identify safe avenues of approach, ambush points, defendable terrain, without any ‘artistic’ distraction. In contrast to the above example of Tobruk, Panzer does allow terrain to dominate play and tactical thinking, as it should!